Posts by Doubting Bro

30

Please Join in Celebration! My DFed brother is coming to dinner!!!

by Open mind in

we're killing the fattened young bull and having osso bucco (spell?

) tonight.

i'm going to the airport right now to pick up my long-time dfed, over 20-years shunned, gay older brother!.

A JW attending funerals at a church.

by garyneal in

my mother-in-law attend the funeral of her father-in-law (my wife's grandfather on her father's side) at his church (a baptist church).

before we went in the church, she (mother-in-law) told me that she wanted to warn me that if they get into the singing and praising of god, don't be surprised if i see her not participating.

i said, "because of that whole, interfaith thing, right?

Doubting Bro

I've gone to numerous family furnerals as well as those for coworkers and non-JW family of JWs. This was as an elder and as a rank & file. Never had anyone question it. Same for weddings.

The last furneral I went to (non-JW family), my dad & brother (both serving elders) were upfront with the rest of the family (mostly JW). Only one JW family member that should have been there wasn't and the rest of the JW family thought he was way out of line.

Of course, many of them didn't bow their heads during prayer or say amen. I don't have a problem with them not saying amen and such. After all, I don't say amen to the prayers at the KH because I don't agree with them.

It really depends on the local situation but I would say that most JWs I know don't have a problem with attending furnerals.

52

Facebook condemned

by straightshooter in

my wife told me that at the last meeting, the elders announced that youngsters going to the skateboarding park were no longer to have any privileges in the congregation.

this is to prevent jw youngs to be rounded up if a drug raid was made at the skateboarding park.. also because of individuals requesting that they be friends on facebook that contain bad pictures, that anyone with a facebook account will automatically have their privileges removed.. sounds like the pharasees protecting the people by adding additional traditions upon them.. .

Doubting Bro

I know at the current CA program there is mention of social networking sites and how they could potentially be dangerous. Not an outright condemnation but I know lots of self rightous elders that could take that and run with it.

They already have a terrible time of retaining young people and stuff like this ALWAYS backfires.

14

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 12-20-09 WT Study (MY FRIENDS)

by blondie in

jw
friends

comments you will not hear at the 12-20-09 wt study (october 15, 2009, pages 13-17)(my friends).

review comments will be in red or headed by comments.

wt material from today's wt will be in black.

Doubting Bro

BB - I agree that par 17 had the most blatant appeal for money in a regular study. A whole paragraph devoted to giving materially toward the WWW? I know they always have that Nov article about ways to give to the WTS but that is never studied.

Cash flow must really be getting tight. I honestly wonder how long before they institute tithing?

33

Question for still active JW's / Faders

by cantleave in

jw
friends

do you still contribute for literature, give to the worldwide work, kingdom hall fund or contribute towards the upkeep of your local kh?

if you do - why?.

Doubting Bro

I haven't given for about 3 years. Not one cent. Instead, I give to real charities and to individuals in need.

14

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 12-20-09 WT Study (MY FRIENDS)

by blondie in

jw
friends

comments you will not hear at the 12-20-09 wt study (october 15, 2009, pages 13-17)(my friends).

review comments will be in red or headed by comments.

wt material from today's wt will be in black.

Doubting Bro

I mentioned this on another post but normally I can tune out the dribble coming from the platform. But, not this past Sunday. Paragraphs 15-18 pissed me off beyond belief. If you read the entire chapter, Jesus was constrating those who follow him merely by word and those who follow him by deed. Then he summarizes during the separating what he meant by deeds when he told the "sheep" that because they were willing to take care in a tangible way (providing food, shelter, care) for the least of the people of the earth, then they would be rewarded. He told those that performed religious works in his name but didn't lift a finger to care for the least of the people of the earth that they would be destroyed for their lack of compassion.

I never thought about this passage before Sunday but clearly if you were to claim to be a follower of Jesus, you would be involved in some sort of charitible works. It doesn't appear to be an option. Although Jesus gave his followers the command to "spread the word", notice that he didn't use that as a measuring stick in Matt 25:41-45. It suddenly hit me that that's one of the biggest reasons that mainstream Christian religions are so involved in charity. They really see it as an integral part of their faith. James 1:27 says the same basic thing that taking care of the less fortunate is the essense of the faith.

Of course, other individuals both religious and non-religious (I consider myself non-religious) do good deeds and they are genuinly trying to help. But for the WTS to claim to be a Christian organization and do very little to help the less fortunate, the exception being the relief work that sometimes helps out non-JWs, is really contrary to what the philosophy of Jesus.

If there is a God, I think we would be judged based on how we treat others. Certainly, the WTS would fall into the goat side based on their conduct.

41

I just feel like crying... I'm so fed up of the hypocrisy!

by cattails in

i was very disgusted with the wt study for today.. towards the end of the article it refers to matthew 15 (see quoted scripture below).

this is a beautiful passage where jesus says his followers need to be hospitable, care for sick, hungry and imprisoned brothers.. they turn it around and say that for jw's this means they need to support the "faithful and discreet slave" by going in door-to-door witnessing, making monetary contributions to support the worldwide witnessing work, and following the directions and counsel of congregation elders.. and the worst part of it all is that there were several commenters giving almost word for word answers to that effect, they didn't even seem to listen to previous comments, they just repeated mindlessly what the paragraph said... i was ready to burst.

mom knew i was about to have a fit right there and then.

Doubting Bro

I thought I was getting pretty good at zoning out at the meetings but paragraphs 15-18 in yesterday's WTS really burned me up as well. I read Matt 24 & 25 all the way through to get the context of Jesus discussion with his disciples. There is no way that in a straight reading, you could come up with the WTS explaination of how the separation of the sheep & goats depends on how people receive Jesus "brothers" aka the Governing Body.

Even the passage regarding the sheep & goats was very clear. It said that all the people of earth were gathered, Jesus put some on his right and some on his left. To the folks on the right, he said that because they were kind to the least of these (subject of the sentence is all the people of the earth), then you'll be saved. He even said that all those folks on his right were his brothers.

To the folks on the left, he said because they weren't kind to the least of these (again, subject of the sentence is all the people of the earth), then you'll be destroyed. He didn't call them his brothers.

The WTS assertion that Jesus was referring to his brothers as the folks you were supposed to be kind to is ridiculous. It doesn't fit into the context of the passage or really make any sense at all. It also doesn't fit into the whole message of Jesus which was to be good to your fellow man.

Like others have said, when a believing JW I never batted an eye at any of these crazy interpretations but now that I sit there after having seeing the man behind the curtain, I can clearly see how they try to twist everything in the Bible to being about themselves.

God forbid they ever encourage any kind of community service (other than bothering people and attempting to "place" literature). If there is a God and a judgement day, I'm thinking the WTS will end up being on the left hand side of this senario.

24

Holy spirit making its first mistake

by stillin9 in

well, it seems like that the holy spirit is making its first mistake!

they want to appoint me as a ministrial servant!

i wonder if that means that apostasy while being apointed as a ms is okay?!

Doubting Bro

TOH

The HS is therefore seen as operating or appointing in the sense that it is the force behind the spelling out of the requirements, the force behind the changes in living which the candidate has carried out, and the force working or influencing the elders during prayer.

You are presenting the WTS take on this correctly. However, it always seemed to me the explaination never really made sense because of the highlighted portion. Either the HS is "speaking" to the elders in the sense that it is moving them to appoint or not appoint or its not. Sure, saying that if the person meets the qualifications in Tim & Titus (plus the extra qualifications from the WTS including 10 hrs in service, commenting at meetings, etc) is in a way being appointed by HS is fine with me. It's the whole, "let's pray over it to get Jehovah's direction" that seems to me that at least implies to the rank & file that HS had the final say.

There's also the whole "the branch also prays over the appointments" issue which adds even more validity that the WTS claims divine appointment for even elders & MS. Clearly, its to reinforce their local authority (disagreeing with the elders can be seen as disagreeing with Jehovah). But, they back off that claim when it's evident that they've made a mistake.

BTW, many clergy and layclergy in other Christian denominations will often say they were "called" into their ministry, meaning the HS moved them to service. So, I'm not arguing that the WTS is alone in claiming divine direction in selecting religious leaders.

The best argument the WTS can come up with on this issue is to point out that Judas was selected by Jesus to be an apostle and look how that turned out. Of course, it is said that Judas started out good and that Jesus didn't make a mistake. But, I've known several situations where men were appointed elders and at the same time doing things that would get them df'ed (such as having sex with a pioneer while someone was on a "long" RV to someone not his wife, he was a MS at the time and was soon appointed as an elder).

6

The conscious class

by tjlibre in

jw
friends

the conscious class.... .

i have just come across this term on the jwrecovery.org website.

it appears to refer to those who are awakening and learning that the wt is just another religion that uses mind control to hold us captive, but for numerous reasons cant leave the org.

Doubting Bro

It's hard to tell because everyone is afraid to honestly express themselves. I do see that the level of devotion has dropped from when I was a kid. I agree with tjlibre that many sense something isnt' quite right but can't put their finger on it. I recall speaking with a long time elder who I grew up with and respected saying that the "friends were just tired". He had become a VERY liberal elder and at that point (being the self righteous prick that I was) I thought he was out of bounds many times. Now, I see he was probably part of this "conscious" class and didn't really believe it. But, like many of us, he had his entire family on both sides in and probably doesn't believe it's worth it to walk away. I have a suspicion that he's taking the approach that he can help folks by being an elder by protecting them to some degree. I tried that at first but I finally realized that I didn't matter and couldn't reform the org.

As tjlibre said, the first step is the hardest and the one that many people refuse to take. It's amazing that a lifetime of beliefs can be swept away in a few hours, yet that's really what happens. Jesus said that those who build faith on falsehood is like building a house on sand. Easily knocked down.

12

African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church

by snowbird in

was first organized in new york during the late 18th century.. prominent members included sojourner truth, harriet tubman, and frederick douglass.. many black churches followed suit and added zion to their names.. i know of a greater zion tabernacle, little zion missionary baptist church, and big zion ame church.. charles russell decided to drop zion from his magazine title because many people were associating his publication with a "colored" church.

his explanation as follows is from the december 15, 1908 wt.. .

with the new year we expect to drop the word "zion's" in the title of our journal, because many of the friends inform us that the word is objectionable, having been so much used by mr. dowie and his followers.

Doubting Bro

Very interesting. Actually kind of shocking considering the percentage of African American JWs in the US.

Here's a link on Dowie because I had no idea who he was.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/170419/John-Alexander-Dowie